Yes, history is written by the victors

[juliekarasik]

“…I read the record, which is written not just by men, but often by men who hate women. It’s an incredibly misogynistic record.”
Philippa Gregory

You don’t say. The bulk of early western history was recorded by the (male) clergy, being the only consistently literate class in Europe until well into the renaissance. Really, I would totally expect cloistered monks with little to no practical knowledge of women and a holy book that says flat out that they are the source of all bad things in the world to have a balanced view of gender politics. Yup.

Today’s dose of the painfully obvious (to me at least) has been brought to you by the letter Q and the number 3.

edit: As has been noted in the comments on DW, I was actually way off on most of the particulars. My own damn fault for engaging keyboard before brain.

Mirrored from CreateSomething.

Comments

[From: recessional]

The bulk of early western history was recorded by the (male) clergy, being the only consistently literate class in Europe until well into the renaissance.

*mediaevalist TWITCH* Not. True. I am cleaning my house, so I do not have time to do even a rapid history of literacy (and the uselessness of that word) in the Christian west, nor of the precise bias at work in the majority of texts, particularly those of the clergy, but I can't really not just say NOT ACCURATE at that before I move on.

I'll babble later.

[From: juliekarasik]

I'll admit to being a generalist, and over-generalizing for the sake of snark. How bad am I off?

[From: recessional]

Short version? Fairly, in terms of meaningful data.

If you use as your definition for "literacy" the flat ability to read and write, then yes, mostly it was clerical talent. Not by any means all. Many noblemen and women were quite able to read. Some were able to write (completely. different. skills). ALL had access to scribes and readers, because it was literally impossible by the thirteenth century to survive without having access to texts. At the peasant level. Peasants had access to texts (that is, either the ability to read, or easy access to someone who could read and write for them).

Clerical texts - that is, texts written by monks and for monks - have to be considered in their context, and that context will vary; doing anything else gets you a really mistaken impression.

It is also quite incorrect to imply that all clergy or even close to all clergy wouldn't've had contact with women - no, they didn't MARRY or have sex with women (theoretically - the concubines of priests are a whole fascinating topic), but they took women's confessions, ministered to women, were the guests of women in their community, etc.

Literal communities in the middle ages: v. fascinating. Quite complex.

Which is to say: sure there's lots of misogyny in the historical records of the time. But its reasons are nowhere near that cut and dried, and aspersions at the "literacy" of the mediaeval populace make my head hurt.

[From: juliekarasik]

Many noblemen and women were quite able to read. Some were able to write (completely. different. skills). ALL had access to scribes and readers,

True. I was using the word to refer to both ends of the spectrum. And also true, access to scribes/readers was a normal thing.

Which is to say: sure there's lots of misogyny in the historical records of the time.

Which is the point I was actually trying to make. I just sorta ate my own feet along the way in a fit of grump. Was deeply annoyed at Gregory presenting said misogyny as a new and shocking discovery, when all I could think was "well, duh".

the concubines of priests are a whole fascinating topic

Oh yes indeedy.

Final analysis - slinging out a grumpy post inbetween phone calls is not conducive to, y'know, actually thinking things though. Which I should do more of.

[From: recessional]

*g* Yeah, I got that generally; just, you know. Mediaevalist moment. They tell you this will happen, when you start studying: they say to you, "You will find yourself bound and determined to correct anyone and everyone when they suddenly say things that are Not True about the Middle Ages."

Many of us laugh at them. . . . and then discover they are right.